Yes bring back all the past - lets put them all in rows again so we can see whose last
English education doomed until Labour is back in power. I fear for the future with Camoron
Gove claims of employers that Many of them have only just got used to GCSEs, as opposed to O-levels. This certainly shows the modern up-to-date approach such people have. After all, the first GCSEs were only taken in 1988 so it has taken a mere 24 years for many employers to get use to them. And this is on top having to come to terms with decimal currency!
We only value those who can enter the city and become bankers -
This man should be no where near childrens education
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The education secretary, Michael Gove, said the old system encouraged young people to take courses that led nowhere. Photograph: David Jones/PA
vocational technical schools Thousands of vocational qualifications to be stripped out of GCSE league tables,
Employers could not care less about points and equivalences and how many of them a young person has. Many of them have only just got used to GCSEs, as opposed to O-levels.
I have met students who told me they were getting 15 GCSEs when they were doing no such thing. Colleges complained to me about growing numbers of young people applying for courses in the belief that they had the necessary entry qualifications, when they did not.
I personally believe that anyone who uses the term non in this way (such as non-job or non-subjects) should be blessed with a wart on their nether regions for each offence.
tellurian - So tell me exactly what you know about Media Studies......
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And weve got to have the poor
I have never understood why these alternative qualifications are called vocational. Using my useless classical education, it is clear to me that a vocation is a calling, the sort of feeling that doctors, priests and others in the helping professions experience. Has anyone actually had a calling to be a bricklayer?
Its clear to all now that Goves ideologically-driven hatred of the Education Sector is seeing him to destroy much that is good.
an F or G maybe...so they can know theyre useless ...and not as good as me
Michael Goves speech has set the wheels in motion, now the work needs to be done how teachers can enhance their knowledge of ICT plus share expertise and views
I was an academic high flier in my youth and thoroughly enjoyed learning Latin. But I can honestly say that the attributes which have been most useful in my life have been IT skills, knowing how to run my own business and understanding the value of good customer service. I learned all these things on the job in the days when companies could afford to train people properly. I am also pleased to have had a very solid foundation in English and Maths, as this has helped with everything. The things I wish I had learned were home maintenance and DIY, and personal financial management. Also, It would be madness, in my opinion, if, in a world dominated by technology and media, school did not teach these things.
In 1988, GCE O-Levels were phased out in state schools in vour of the General Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE). GCE A-Levels were retained.
Now if we could follow this through and remove lots of things like homeopathy, media studies and so on from what can be described as a degree . . .
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Not really a iling of the education system is it? GCSEs have been around for 22 years, I thought the private sector was supposed to be responsive and flexible?
children are diverse. If every child was academically gifted there gifts would be worthless as the market would be crowded out
More than 3,000 qualifications regarded as equivalent toGCSEsin current league tables and said to be used by someschoolsto improve their rankings will be reduced to 125. Just 70 will count towards the main performance measure of five A to C grades at GCSE. The first league tables to reflect the changes will be published in January 2015, based on results from the previous summer.
Peter Dixons excellent poem aptly sums up the current state of Tory thinking (apology for spinning the last line):
Lets hope this iling Conservative Coalition collapses before its full term - that way the damage which he and his chum Willets are wreaking can at least be constrained by time.
Employers could not care less about points and equivalences and how many of them a young person has. Many of them have only just got used to GCSEs, as opposed to O-levels. They look instead at whether young people have got certain, specific qualifications: ones which they recognise and value.
For weve got to have the stupid
Quite simplye QCA is right to start getting a grip on the dross, they then need to rework the GCSEs and A levels that we do have to ensure the standard is preserved.
Do you have any evidence or proof to back up this statement, or are you just playing to the gallery?
The vast number of approved GCSE or GCSE-equivalent qualifications has been reduced by 96% to just 125, and these fulfil tough criteria ensuring they lead to meaningful further study or employment, saysAlison Wolf
These are small schools for 14- to 19-year-olds which are intended to act as a bridge between education and the workplace. They open all year round and the day lasts from 9 till 5. They will offer a mix of academic and vocational qualifications as well as paid work placements.
Thirteen newUniversity Technical Colleges(UTCs) are also approved to open from this September onwards. UTCs are academies for 14- to 19-year-olds, focusing on providing technical education in partnership with businesses.
So you suggest studying for a degree that is not related to the industry you want to work in. I mean if you want to work in TV or Cinema a degree in Latin or Greek would do just as well asCinema, Photography and Television Studies.
I guess Gove does not want children to dream of setting up their own stables
No wonder with peole like Gove controlling education our country is loosing its ability to create business and diversity and thrive -
In Wales for example tourism was worth 6 billion a year and generated almost 10 per cent of jobs.
So tell me exactly what you know about Media Studies......
Gove is an idiot, I really wouldnt trust anything he says.
Full-course GCSEs, established iGCSEs, AS levels and music exams at grade six and above will all count towards the tables.
I really dont believe that. And if its true then its the career advisers that misinform students that should be ditched.
Lets label all the good ones (the ones like you and me) and make them into prefects - like prefects ought to be
Well put them on an honours board...as honours ought to be, and write their names in burnished script for all the world to see
Our children have came out confident and diverse - Gove does not want this. He wants to crush their spirit and their ambition and drive Britain back to the days when they are labelled as stupid because they are not academic
Schools will still be able to offer these courses, but they will no longer boost their position in league tables.
Back to the eightys but didnt the tories turn us into a service based economy and most of these courses which are scrapped are in the service area ?.
This is one of the few actions I can agree with - after a 20 month tenure of this PR Sham purporting to be the UK Government.
and Bs - and well parcel up the useless ones and call them Cs and Ds....well even have an E lot!
Oh bring us back all the gone days
True. But the effect of taking them out of league tables will be to deter schools from offering them.
I have never been able to understand why degrees are offered in such non-subjects as Cinema, Photography and Television Studies.
Employers could not care less about points and equivalences and how many of them a young person has. Many of them have only just got used to GCSEs, as opposed to O-levels.
Well have them back in uniform, well have them doff their caps, and learn what manners really are...for decent kinds of chaps
Hmmm amd yet where I live ( near Newmarket) two sectors which seem to be thriving despite the downturn are horse racing and nail bars . I can see that a C&G level 2 in horse care or nail technology would be rather helpful to some young people round here. Especially as literacy and numeracy are embedded in all such courses.
Of course there is always a danger the the Head Illusionist might perform another U Turn as a way of pleasing his pet Lobbyist?
For too long the system has been devalued by attempts to pretend that all qualifications are intrinsically the same. Young people have taken courses that have led nowhere.
Greek and Latin for all, I say.
If you do a GCSE in Additional Maths or Physics you are against some of the brighest boys in the school, if you do a GCSE in Media Studies you arent. My brother in laws had an IT A-level that Manchester University didnt recognise as and IT a-level. This may sound unir but all the IT nerds do the harder one which means not only is the subject easier but you compete against less able IT people.
In the the fifties there were two very worthwhile GCE O level subjests, Commercial Arithmetic and Principles of Accounts. Each awarded half one O level - University of Durham Board. I tried in vain to get them brought back.
Even mad people have occasional inspiration? Not that this, or Bibles signed by Govey, is necessarily a good thing.
Surely C & G qualifications are pretty useful if you want to learn a trade that will help you earn money like plumbing, eletrical wiring etc. If I had my time again I would have left school at 16 and learnt a trade. Most people I know who did earn good money got qualified younger and are now happy self employed plumbers/electricians/dressmakers/chefs etc. Unlike those who decided to take safe office job route... years later stuck in a boring office in front of a computer with chronic back ache, no possiblity of self employment with my future dependent of the generosity of my employer. If you get made redundant from an office job after 40 you have a slim chance of getting another job soon, on the other hand a 40 year old plumber will never be short of work.
A Btec in fish husbandry, worth two GCSEs, a level 2 certificate in nail technology and a level 2 award in travel and tourism are among those being dropped.
Get Gove out of education now
In an article for Education Guardian, Wolf writes that vocational qualifications should be included among the most respected school subjects, but warns that too many have no value.
In Gove World Maths, English, Geography, History, Biology.... are all for the chop as attainments... and all schools will be privatised.... and in Gove World the only meaningful object is an old rt talking through his .
I have a few friends who studied what you would callmedia studiesand they are doing rather well working in, er, media.
Not to mention so many of those taking diplomas, lets call them the equivalent of route to nowhere, are told they can go further and on to University, yet few Universities take these qualifications. So once again there is no connect, there is no consistency and students are left wondering what the hell happened.
Because - if we dont have them...well...what are old Etonions for
The rigged system didnt do him any vours. All these new GCSE were to do with grade inflation, that helped Schools and Government but sometimes had a very negative effect on pupils.
Nice going from Gove and Wolf both no doubt had FREE university tuition and st tracked to their current position, with no experience of working class.
Back to the 1970s fiasco - Snobbery forever.
In this case, it is vocational qualification for those who wish to work in rming, shion, agriculture and tourism - areas which (unlike casino banking) provide real livelihoods and sustainable benefits to the UK economy.
So the courses will still be offered but they will not distort the schools recorded and perceived academic performance. Unless of course, contributors feel that GCSE Physics, which will hopefully train and inspire people to be the engineers and scientists of the future is somehow equal with the absurd sounding Nail Technology.
Studying for any degree demands discipline in grammar, logic and rhetoric.
Dont let a bust (in a country where all we have done is boom and bust for the past 100 years) make us only see the cost of everything and the value of nothing we are all better educated than that.
If you happened to be blessed with skills other than academic we will ensure you leave school with no qualifications and are labelled stupid for the rest of your life
Arthur The Cat says:
For too long the system has been devalued by attempts to pretend that all qualifications are intrinsically the same. Young people have taken courses that have led nowhere.
That is true, even the students are confused. Equivalents of are a ridiculous concept. There are students who study Btecs, for two years, jump into an apprenticeship if they are lucky and study further three years all for a book of equivalent of and certificates. Any other country would be awarding a degree or something that makes sense in the wider global sphere, not an equivalent of. The nonsensical tick boxing on this section of education is truly mind boggling.
I have never been able to understand why degrees are offered in such non-subjects as Cinema, Photography and Television Studies.
I was forced to do it in Lower 6th, on the first day to let us know what it was our class was given a past as homework. Having never read a book on it or had one class I got a C mark in GCSE. Id like to believe I was a genius, in reality it was an exam in common sence and English comprehension in which you didnt get marked down for bad spelling and Grammar. At GCSE anyway it was the Mickeyest of Mickey Mouse subjects.
Now if we could follow this through and remove lots of things like homeopathy, media studies and so on from what can be described as a degree . . .
Thirteen new University Technical Colleges (UTCs) are also approved to open from this September onwards. UTCs are academies for 14- to 19-year-olds, focusing on providing technical education in partnership with businesses.
Rubbish, I have a Communications degree, probably more theoretical than a Media Studies degree, and it has set me up well for life, opened doors for employment, and given me and my old college friends long term careers in and out of the media industry (myself outside).
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I guess Gove does not want to encourage the youth of today to set up nail parlours
Gove claims of employers that Many of them have only just got used to GCSEs, as opposed to O-levels. This certainly shows the modern up-to-date approach such people have. After all, the first GCSEs were only taken in 1988 so it has taken a mere 24 years for many employers to get use to them. And this is on top having to come to terms with decimal currency!
The qualifications being ditched include the City and Guilds level 2 diploma in horse care, currently worth four GCSEs in the league tables.
I have to agree @Riverboat Captain. Greek and particularly Latin remain useful throughout your whole life, as does miliarity with the history, philosophy and culture of Classical antiquity.
Your children are not there to get a broad education - but to spend 12 years of their lives controlled and boxed in - to ensure their flair and their talent is stifled
Once again a Tory government throwing children who are gifted with the skills of their hands thrown on the scrapheap
GdnHigherEd:Access to specific technologies doesnt guarantee the qualit
I am sick of this price tagging of everything, the value of education is r greater than just getting a job. It is about self fulfillment, attainment, confidence building, cognitive development etc. Therefore often the subject is irrelevant be it ancient Greek or even nail technology. At the extremes of society offering the chance to build attain a recognised standard of achievement can mean so much, Often these students can be the first in their mily to achieve any form of qualification. Speak to any teacher in a sink school and they will tell you keep a child in school until they are 16 and finish with their year group and they are 3x less likely to go to prison later in life. What is the best way to do that allowing them some recognition.
An end to qualifications that have no real value
I think Gove needs some back to basics education.
Those with an education in the classical trivium of grammar, logic and rhetoric are least likely to find themselves consigned to selling cheap st food. Those with a degree in media studies (sic) will find that that occupation looms large for them.
Taking a look at both links above, Studio schools and UTCs, it appears as we add to the mired muck that this is exactly what is needed. Unfortunately, neither website gives complete details and the devil has got to be in there somewhere. What is a shame is that the concept for studio schools and UTCs where one could actually gain a GCSE if we are to stay with that system and not a system of equivalent of, should be and could be applied across the board as secondary education in every school in every community. Instead of this division that seems to be created. Still, it appears that the two concepts of schools listed above could be a very good thing. But we need r more information then what is provided.
many of those taking diplomas, lets call them the equivalent of route to nowhere, are told they can go further and on to University, yet few Universities take these qualifications.
Indeed,
I have to agree Im afraid the dumbing down of the education system in 1988 resulted in youngsters boasting of Aa high number of GCSES. Prior to this if you left school with five or more you knew you were qualified to study at University. The Education system was not so Ghetto friendly shall we say.
I guess Gove does not want people to dream of setting up their own fish rms
Only the academic shall leave school with any qualifications
Non-qualifications like GNVQ ICT etc have dumbed down the calibre of the qualification. This then leads to a rcical situation where proper subjects such as Chemistry had content removed to bring them in line with the doss subjects. The no-one should il culture has destroyed the standing of our qualifications. A level Chemistry lacks sufficient rigour for medicine hence the greater demand for the Cambridge pre U, use of the BMAT.
but to deliberately deprive the children from growing whos skills are not first and foremost academic - has been tried, tested and iled
yes and Latin will be forced on children
So lets label all the good ones, well call them all the As
The education secretary, Michael Gove, said the old system encouraged young people to take courses that led nowhere.
About time too.
Employers could not care less about points and equivalences and how many of them a young person has. Many of them have only just got used to GCSEs, as opposed to O-levels. They look instead at whether young people have got certain, specific qualifications: ones which they recognise and value.
Thousands of vocational qualifications including courses in fish husbandry and nail technology are to be stripped out of school league tables, the government has announced.
The GCSE system and even A levels have been dumbed down to the point of worthlessness. This is why I teach IGCSE and IB. Virtually every public school has followed the same route.
the first GCSEs were only taken in 1988 so it has taken a mere 24 years for many employers to get use to them.
Third stream revenues will becoming increasingly important to the financial strength of HEIs. Here are tips on how to approach partnership with the private sector
The government has also announced that 12 newstudio schoolsare approved to open later this year, joining six already open.
The announcement follows a review of vocational education carried out by Prof Alison Wolf, a public policy expert. She argues that pupils need to acquire broad skills to enable them to thrive over a lifetime of change.
Could it be that these courses lead nowhere, due to the reality of the ct there are no jobs to lead to?
Oh bring back higher standards - the pencil and the cane
Courses such as fish husbandry, nail technology and horse care will no longer count as equivalent to GCSEs
Schools will still be able to offer these courses, but they will no longer boost their position in league tables.
Without doubt, some courses are make-weight but I can see a plaice for Fish Husbandry...
The education secretary, Michael Gove, said: The weaknesses in our current system were laid bare by Professor Wolfs incisive and r-reaching review. The changes we are will take time but will transform the lives of young people.
It does seem that Gove is one of the few, or maybe even the only politician that is actually changing things for the better.
- if we want education then we must have some pain.
